beautiful article kevin, never knew about that particular brooks book though i have admired some of his other writings. two years ago I left home and a high profile position in my labor union to come to alaska and do our homestead thing ( a disaster ) and hopefully focus on my writing... which for me was always where I feel that beautiful quote about " deep hunger"...much pain but think i'm on my way up the second mountain ... keep up the good work
Late to this conversation, but glad to have found it. I resigned a tenured faculty position at a private college in December. In some ways, that career defied the first/second mountain binary because it was both. I chose it because it offered both success and contribution. But you can end up in the valley when a purpose-driven career loses its purpose. In that case, I didn't discover anything behind the curtain. The institutional culture changed over sixteen years, the workload increased, and I brought a lot of negativity home. My job was the only reason we lived thirteen hours from family, so when my wife's business grew to the point that we could move without me needing to work, I quit. Seeing my three kids with their grandparents and cousin is worth it, but I'm not yet sure where I belong in this new scheme. I suppose it's hard for me to say that my old work falls under "shit that no longer matters," because much of it did matter. I'm squarely in the valley now, hoping to discover a way to be useful.
It can take a while. But you’re not alone. This essay has acted as a lighthouse and brought together many dads who are unsatisfied with where their careers have ended up. But we’re all figuring it out together, which is less lonely, at the very least.
I had to sit with this one for a bit as it really nailed a number of things I’m feeling right now, especially as I look back at the last 18 years of my career and project forward what I want the next 18 to look like (read: not like the last 18). I stumbled into healthcare which in the US is a large (20% of the economy) but somewhat provincial industry and I’m glad I’m in it. But it’s not my sole purpose. I (finally) feel like I’m finding more of that with a passion project while at the same time being kinder to myself in other aspects of my life.
I’ve also hated the question “what do you do?” I always tell myself that the next time I’m asked that, I’ll say “I run” or something cheeky as work should not define us.
Oh, and I loved your Carpenters Easter egg in there. Well played, sir.
Would love to see the first/second mountain model applied to couples where both partners earn a living for their family. How does the dynamic change? In my case, my wife would certainly like the scale her “first mountain” once the kids are old enough and are spending most of their days in school and extracurriculars. Curious, is the first mountain inevitable? Do we build the first mountain for ourselves? Dang, love this post. I want to go deeper!
Oh wow that’s such a great point. Is one mountain different from another? Harder to climb? Easier to descend?
I don’t think the first mountain is inevitable at all. When I occasionally find myself talking to people in their late 20s / early 30s about this they’re already painfully aware of what’s behind the curtain. They graduated when the banks fucked everything up in 2007. And now they’re coming of home-buying and kid-considering in the middle of another Black Swan Event.
I think we are going to see more and more people rejecting the first mountain entirely.
Well put, Hunter. We took an approach with our first daughter that worked well: I worked (more than I probably should) and she stayed home while also serving as the “nanny share” with two other families. We remain close with those families to this day despite our kids been 9/10 years old and living in three different countries.
Thank you Jim! This has been buzzing around in my head and I’m conversations with friends for years now. It’s very cathartic to get it all on the metaphorical page and see it resonate with so many people.
This may be the (almost) fourth anniversary of this post, but it hasn't aged at all. Still highly relevant. Thanks for sharing your journey.
beautiful article kevin, never knew about that particular brooks book though i have admired some of his other writings. two years ago I left home and a high profile position in my labor union to come to alaska and do our homestead thing ( a disaster ) and hopefully focus on my writing... which for me was always where I feel that beautiful quote about " deep hunger"...much pain but think i'm on my way up the second mountain ... keep up the good work
https://fatherofzoomers.substack.com/p/capitalism-and-de-prude-ings?s=w
latest blog about raising seven kids
Late to this conversation, but glad to have found it. I resigned a tenured faculty position at a private college in December. In some ways, that career defied the first/second mountain binary because it was both. I chose it because it offered both success and contribution. But you can end up in the valley when a purpose-driven career loses its purpose. In that case, I didn't discover anything behind the curtain. The institutional culture changed over sixteen years, the workload increased, and I brought a lot of negativity home. My job was the only reason we lived thirteen hours from family, so when my wife's business grew to the point that we could move without me needing to work, I quit. Seeing my three kids with their grandparents and cousin is worth it, but I'm not yet sure where I belong in this new scheme. I suppose it's hard for me to say that my old work falls under "shit that no longer matters," because much of it did matter. I'm squarely in the valley now, hoping to discover a way to be useful.
It can take a while. But you’re not alone. This essay has acted as a lighthouse and brought together many dads who are unsatisfied with where their careers have ended up. But we’re all figuring it out together, which is less lonely, at the very least.
I'm so glad I discovered this.
Hope it’s helping you on you journey up (or down) whatever mountain you’re on.
I had to sit with this one for a bit as it really nailed a number of things I’m feeling right now, especially as I look back at the last 18 years of my career and project forward what I want the next 18 to look like (read: not like the last 18). I stumbled into healthcare which in the US is a large (20% of the economy) but somewhat provincial industry and I’m glad I’m in it. But it’s not my sole purpose. I (finally) feel like I’m finding more of that with a passion project while at the same time being kinder to myself in other aspects of my life.
I’ve also hated the question “what do you do?” I always tell myself that the next time I’m asked that, I’ll say “I run” or something cheeky as work should not define us.
Oh, and I loved your Carpenters Easter egg in there. Well played, sir.
Glad it spoke to you Jeremy. You’re not alone. My inbox has been full since I posted this. If it helps, I stumbled into this TNF thing too.
Would “yodeling” be more appropriate with the mountains?
Would love to see the first/second mountain model applied to couples where both partners earn a living for their family. How does the dynamic change? In my case, my wife would certainly like the scale her “first mountain” once the kids are old enough and are spending most of their days in school and extracurriculars. Curious, is the first mountain inevitable? Do we build the first mountain for ourselves? Dang, love this post. I want to go deeper!
Oh wow that’s such a great point. Is one mountain different from another? Harder to climb? Easier to descend?
I don’t think the first mountain is inevitable at all. When I occasionally find myself talking to people in their late 20s / early 30s about this they’re already painfully aware of what’s behind the curtain. They graduated when the banks fucked everything up in 2007. And now they’re coming of home-buying and kid-considering in the middle of another Black Swan Event.
I think we are going to see more and more people rejecting the first mountain entirely.
Well put, Hunter. We took an approach with our first daughter that worked well: I worked (more than I probably should) and she stayed home while also serving as the “nanny share” with two other families. We remain close with those families to this day despite our kids been 9/10 years old and living in three different countries.
Absolutely loved this post and it captures so much of what I've been thinking about over the last few years.
Thank you Jim! This has been buzzing around in my head and I’m conversations with friends for years now. It’s very cathartic to get it all on the metaphorical page and see it resonate with so many people.